From adam at tameware.com Sat Apr 1 06:14:00 2017 From: adam at tameware.com (Adam Wildavsky) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 22:14:00 -0600 Subject: [BLML] 2017 laws posted Message-ID: http://www.worldbridge.org/the-wbf/by-laws/2017-laws-of-duplicate-bridge/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170401/a7bc78e2/attachment.html From jfusselman at gmail.com Sat Apr 1 06:52:37 2017 From: jfusselman at gmail.com (Jerry Fusselman) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:52:37 -0500 Subject: [BLML] 2017 laws posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks! Any thoughts or comments, Adam? Jerry Fussselman On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Adam Wildavsky wrote: > http://www.worldbridge.org/the-wbf/by-laws/2017-laws-of-duplicate-bridge/ > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170401/98fe148d/attachment.html From vitoldbr at yandex.ru Sat Apr 1 08:03:01 2017 From: vitoldbr at yandex.ru (vitoldbr) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:03:01 +0300 Subject: [BLML] 2017 laws posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7479381491026581@web2o.yandex.ru> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170401/9a9e6efe/attachment.html From piv+blml at iki.fi Wed Apr 12 17:41:56 2017 From: piv+blml at iki.fi (Pekka Viitasalo) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 18:41:56 +0300 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Message-ID: Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -- http://www.iki.fi/~piv "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 From gordonr60 at gmail.com Wed Apr 12 18:24:03 2017 From: gordonr60 at gmail.com (gordonr60 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:24:03 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58ee54a2.c2d21c0a.3cf28.a9b6@mx.google.com> Interesting question to which you may get a different answer from a linguist or a lawyer, but it seems to me that in the context of the laws of bridge they mean the same thing. The differences between them are so subtle that I found it hard to think of any. I don?t think it would be correct to say ?I was erroneous? but it would be fine to say ?I was mistaken?. By contrast one could say ?his answer was mistaken? or ?his answer was erroneous?. Now let?s see if any linguists tell me I?m mistaken! Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Pekka Viitasalo Sent: 12 April 2017 16:49 To: Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -- http://www.iki.fi/~piv "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/3fc24274/attachment.html From mikeamostd at btinternet.com Wed Apr 12 18:36:07 2017 From: mikeamostd at btinternet.com (Mike Amos) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:36:07 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: <58ee54a2.c2d21c0a.3cf28.a9b6@mx.google.com> References: <58ee54a2.c2d21c0a.3cf28.a9b6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00a901d2b3aa$e3932810$aab97830$@btinternet.com> I haven?t looked it up yet, but I think Gordon is on the right track - answers can be erroneous or mistaken but we don?t say that a person is erroneous = we say that they were mistaken. Mike From: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] On Behalf Of gordonr60 at gmail.com Sent: 12 April 2017 17:24 To: Pekka Viitasalo ; Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: Re: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Interesting question to which you may get a different answer from a linguist or a lawyer, but it seems to me that in the context of the laws of bridge they mean the same thing. The differences between them are so subtle that I found it hard to think of any. I don?t think it would be correct to say ?I was erroneous? but it would be fine to say ?I was mistaken?. By contrast one could say ?his answer was mistaken? or ?his answer was erroneous?. Now let?s see if any linguists tell me I?m mistaken! Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Pekka Viitasalo Sent: 12 April 2017 16:49 To: Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -- http://www.iki.fi/~piv "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/34a1de93/attachment.html From larry at charmschool.orangehome.co.uk Wed Apr 12 18:47:31 2017 From: larry at charmschool.orangehome.co.uk (Larry) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:47:31 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken References: <58ee54a2.c2d21c0a.3cf28.a9b6@mx.google.com> <00a901d2b3aa$e3932810$aab97830$@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Mistaken is a lady who has been married Eronius is the roman god of husbands thereafter L ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Amos To: 'Bridge Laws Mailing List' ; 'Pekka Viitasalo' Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken I haven?t looked it up yet, but I think Gordon is on the right track - answers can be erroneous or mistaken but we don?t say that a person is erroneous = we say that they were mistaken. Mike From: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] On Behalf Of gordonr60 at gmail.com Sent: 12 April 2017 17:24 To: Pekka Viitasalo ; Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: Re: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Interesting question to which you may get a different answer from a linguist or a lawyer, but it seems to me that in the context of the laws of bridge they mean the same thing. The differences between them are so subtle that I found it hard to think of any. I don?t think it would be correct to say ?I was erroneous? but it would be fine to say ?I was mistaken?. By contrast one could say ?his answer was mistaken? or ?his answer was erroneous?. Now let?s see if any linguists tell me I?m mistaken! Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Pekka Viitasalo Sent: 12 April 2017 16:49 To: Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -- http://www.iki.fi/~piv "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/c1c5ee15/attachment-0001.html From axman22 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 12 19:21:04 2017 From: axman22 at hotmail.com (Roger Pewick) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:21:04 +0000 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that the flavor of mistaken reflects confusion contrasting the flavor of erroneous that reflects choice. Regards roger pewick Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Pekka Viitasalo Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:49 AM To: Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/6f8b25d8/attachment.html From sven at svenpran.net Thu Apr 13 01:04:07 2017 From: sven at svenpran.net (Sven Pran) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 01:04:07 +0200 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001701d2b3e1$1a2dd330$4e897990$@svenpran.net> An example: Say that an opening bid of 1Cl is agreed upon as natural If the opener uses it to show just that then the bid is correct. If the opener uses it to show 16+ HCP then the bid is erroneous. And if it is explained as denying 5 cards in any suit other than clubs then the explanation is mistaken. So there can be a correct call with a mistaken explanation, there can also be an erroneous call with a mistaken explanation. But there is absolutely no way a call can be both correct and erroneous. Regards Sven Fra: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] P? vegne av Roger Pewick Sendt: onsdag 12. april 2017 19.21 Til: Bridge Laws Mailing List Emne: Re: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken I think that the flavor of mistaken reflects confusion contrasting the flavor of erroneous that reflects choice. Regards roger pewick Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Pekka Viitasalo Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:49 AM To: Bridge Laws Discussion List Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/db5c97dd/attachment.html From adam at tameware.com Thu Apr 13 01:55:42 2017 From: adam at tameware.com (Adam Wildavsky) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:55:42 -0600 Subject: [BLML] 2017 laws posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: None! Well, hardly any. I didn't always get my way, but I'm happy with the result. It resolves some ambiguities in the 2007 code and clarifies language in multiple places. This is in large part due to suggestions from BLML and elsewhere. On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Jerry Fusselman wrote: > Thanks! > > Any thoughts or comments, Adam? > > Jerry Fussselman > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Adam Wildavsky > wrote: > >> http://www.worldbridge.org/the-wbf/by-laws/2017-laws-of-duplicate-bridge/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> Blml at rtflb.org >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170412/b8fcadfb/attachment.html From hildalirsch at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 05:45:55 2017 From: hildalirsch at gmail.com (Richard Hills) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:45:55 +1000 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo Hi Pekka The Index is NOT officially part of the Laws (on the other hand, the Introduction is officially part of the Laws). Best wishes, Richard Hills, compiler of the unofficial Index On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:41 AM, Pekka Viitasalo wrote: > Hi all, > > Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are > there > some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index > pointing to Law 46B. > > Best regards, > Pekka Viitasalo > > > -- > http://www.iki.fi/~piv > > "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170413/6548719a/attachment-0001.html From lskelso at ihug.com.au Thu Apr 13 07:48:00 2017 From: lskelso at ihug.com.au (Laurie Kelso) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:48:00 +1000 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3de275d9-9881-90cb-0c6b-22e89ea1552a@ihug.com.au> A slightly modified version of a reply previously sent to Pekka: -------------------------------------- Hello Pekka If your question relates to the issue of translation, then yes, I would treat the two terms as synonyms. Both words can be found in the Laws of Duplicate Bridge for as far back as the 1963 edition; hence the appearance of one term as opposed to the other in a particular Law is not something new, but a continuation of past practice. If one considers this from the most basic of perspectives, then 'erroneous' and 'mistaken' are simply the adjectives of the corresponding words 'error' and 'mistake'. Please also bear in mind when reading the Laws that the actual meaning of single words is not always absolute, but often contingent upon the context of usage. Finally, you should also note that the term 'erroneous' is no longer used in the 2017 version of Law 46. Regards Laurie On 13/04/2017 1:41 AM, Pekka Viitasalo wrote: > Hi all, > > Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there > some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index > pointing to Law 46B. > > Best regards, > Pekka Viitasalo > > From ardelm at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 13 08:47:01 2017 From: ardelm at optusnet.com.au (Tony Musgrove) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:47:01 +1000 Subject: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009701d2b421$c12d5620$43880260$@optusnet.com.au> An error is made by partner, a mistake is made by me Cheers, Tony (Sydney) From: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Richard Hills Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2017 1:46 PM To: Bridge Laws Mailing List Subject: Re: [BLML] Laws 2017: erroneous & mistaken Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo Hi Pekka The Index is NOT officially part of the Laws (on the other hand, the Introduction is officially part of the Laws). Best wishes, Richard Hills, compiler of the unofficial Index On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:41 AM, Pekka Viitasalo wrote: Hi all, Are the words erroneous and mistaken used as synonyms in the laws or are there some nuances between those two? Erroneus appears in Law 20 F and in index pointing to Law 46B. Best regards, Pekka Viitasalo -- http://www.iki.fi/~piv "It is more complicated than you think." - RFC1925 _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170413/7d9b96b3/attachment-0001.html From bridgeinindia at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 14:21:15 2017 From: bridgeinindia at gmail.com (BridgeinIndia) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:51:15 +0530 Subject: [BLML] Duplicate bridge laws 2017 Message-ID: *Friends* *Our greetings to you all.* *We herewith give a link to copy of Duplicate Bridge laws 2017 published in our web site . * *View> **http://www.bridgeindia.com/Bridge_Laws/Law_2017/Duplicate_Laws_2017.html * *We have given links to all the 93 Laws. One page for each law. This would make it easier to find a law you want to view and discuss. * *For example If one wants to know about Dummy's Right, just click on Law 42 Dummy's Rights. - Up Pops the page. * *We are trying to give links to sub topics too. These links to sub topics would be more useful whenever there are many sub topics in a Law. * *In Law 73, there are 5 sub topics If each is **given a link, it would be more useful. But this linking to sub topics would take time which we hope to do in a few **days. * *With Regards* *Dr Raghavan.P.S.BridgeinIndia at gmail.com www.BridgeIndia.com Ph =+91-044-23761038Mobile = 9940273749* *?-------------------------------------------* Sent with Mailtrack <#> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170413/99e20ab5/attachment.html From adam at tameware.com Mon Apr 17 20:13:48 2017 From: adam at tameware.com (Adam Wildavsky) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:13:48 -0500 Subject: [BLML] Duplicate bridge laws 2017 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is useful ? thanks! The red bounding boxes do not render properly on my Mac, either in Chrome or Safari ? they are too short. That's only a cosmetic issue. It does not affect usability. On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 7:21 AM, BridgeinIndia wrote: > *Friends* > > *Our greetings to you all.* > > *We herewith give a link to copy of Duplicate Bridge laws 2017 published > in our web site . * > > *View> **http://www.bridgeindia.com/Bridge_Laws/Law_2017/Duplicate_Laws_2017.html > * > > *We have given links to all the 93 Laws. One page for each law. This would > make it easier to find a law you want to view and discuss. * > > *For example If one wants to know about Dummy's Right, just click on Law > 42 Dummy's Rights. - Up Pops the page. * > > *We are trying to give links to sub topics too. These links to sub topics > would be more useful whenever there are many sub topics in a Law. * > > *In Law 73, there are 5 sub topics If each is **given a link, it would be > more useful. But this linking to sub topics would take time which we hope > to do in a few **days. * > > *With Regards* > > > > > > *Dr Raghavan.P.S.BridgeinIndia at gmail.com > www.BridgeIndia.com > Ph > =+91-044-23761038 <+91%2044%202376%201038>Mobile = 9940273749* > *?-------------------------------------------* > > > > Sent with Mailtrack > > <#m_-7251684990234487633_> > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170417/5496d9af/attachment.html From bridgeinindia at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 13:04:34 2017 From: bridgeinindia at gmail.com (BridgeinIndia) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:34:34 +0530 Subject: [BLML] Duplicate bridge laws 2017 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *?Thanks for your comment that it is useful. * *Correction has been made regarding Red boxes. Hope this is ok ?* *?With Regards* *Dr Raghavan.P.S.BridgeinIndia at gmail.com www.BridgeIndia.com Ph =+91-044-23761038* *Mobile = 9940273749?* Sent with Mailtrack <#> - ?--------------------------------------------------------------? On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Adam Wildavsky wrote: > This is useful ? thanks! > > The red bounding boxes do not render properly on my Mac, either in Chrome > or Safari ? they are too short. That's only a cosmetic issue. It does not > affect usability. > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 7:21 AM, BridgeinIndia > wrote: > >> *Friends* >> >> *Our greetings to you all.* >> >> *We herewith give a link to copy of Duplicate Bridge laws 2017 published >> in our web site . * >> >> *View> **http://www.bridgeindia.com/Bridge_Laws/Law_2017/Duplicate_Laws_2017.html >> * >> >> *We have given links to all the 93 Laws. One page for each law. This >> would make it easier to find a law you want to view and discuss. * >> >> *For example If one wants to know about Dummy's Right, just click on Law >> 42 Dummy's Rights. - Up Pops the page. * >> >> *We are trying to give links to sub topics too. These links to sub >> topics would be more useful whenever there are many sub topics in a Law. * >> >> *In Law 73, there are 5 sub topics If each is **given a link, it would >> be more useful. But this linking to sub topics would take time which we >> hope to do in a few **days. * >> >> *With Regards* >> >> >> >> >> >> *Dr Raghavan.P.S.BridgeinIndia at gmail.com >> www.BridgeIndia.com >> Ph >> =+91-044-23761038 <+91%2044%202376%201038>Mobile = 9940273749* >> *?-------------------------------------------* >> >> >> >> Sent with Mailtrack >> >> <#m_581861439236908777_m_-7251684990234487633_> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> Blml at rtflb.org >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20170418/b21cd0ce/attachment.html