From olivier.laspada at bluewin.ch Sun Nov 1 19:33:54 2015 From: olivier.laspada at bluewin.ch (Olivier La Spada) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 19:33:54 +0100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? Message-ID: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Hi there, I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing about it and more complex it becomes. Team competition. Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. The bidding goes: 1D ? P ? 3C ? P 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she is not sure but should be natural and strong. Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really don?t know what it is, if not natural? The full deal North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 East : J976/T762/A8/A87 South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 West : T53/985/2/KJT432 West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with his DA and played a heart back. Result 3NT+1 West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... Kind regards Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151101/adb511df/attachment.html From svenpran at online.no Sun Nov 1 20:33:15 2015 From: svenpran at online.no (Sven Pran) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 20:33:15 +0100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: <001401d114dc$2860acc0$79220640$@online.no> There is one very serious violation here of Law 20F5bii (which is a ?must? law - the strongest there is). South should have called the Director after the final pass (before the opening lead) and offered the in his opinion correct explanation. As a consequence of this failure I would adjusted the score on the board to the likely result if East had led a club in trick 3. Without much analysis I believe this means 3NT-3. (It doesn?r really matter whicn of his three clubs East leads, they get all their 6 club tricks anyway If South is an experienced player I would in addition consider a PP in IMPs, otherwise I would just give a warning.. IMHO a clear cut case Sven Fra: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] P? vegne av Olivier La Spada Sendt: 1. november 2015 19:34 Til: Blml at rtflb.org Emne: [BLML] How would you act? Hi there, I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing about it and more complex it becomes. Team competition. Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. The bidding goes: 1D ? P ? 3C ? P 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she is not sure but should be natural and strong. Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really don?t know what it is, if not natural? The full deal North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 East : J976/T762/A8/A87 South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 West : T53/985/2/KJT432 West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with his DA and played a heart back. Result 3NT+1 West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... Kind regards Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151101/0dc0c41d/attachment.html From gordonr60 at gmail.com Sun Nov 1 21:49:16 2015 From: gordonr60 at gmail.com (Gordon Rainsford) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 20:49:16 +0000 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <001401d114dc$2860acc0$79220640$@online.no> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> <001401d114dc$2860acc0$79220640$@online.no> Message-ID: It's nice to be able to agree with Sven without qualification occasionally! > On 1 Nov 2015, at 19:33, Sven Pran wrote: > > There is one very serious violation here of Law 20F5bii (which is a ?must? law - the strongest there is). > > South should have called the Director after the final pass (before the opening lead) and offered the in his opinion correct explanation. > > As a consequence of this failure I would adjusted the score on the board to the likely result if East had led a club in trick 3. > > Without much analysis I believe this means 3NT-3. (It doesn?r really matter whicn of his three clubs East leads, they get all their 6 club tricks anyway > > If South is an experienced player I would in addition consider a PP in IMPs, otherwise I would just give a warning.. > > IMHO a clear cut case > > Sven > > Fra: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] P? vegne av Olivier La Spada > Sendt: 1. november 2015 19:34 > Til: Blml at rtflb.org > Emne: [BLML] How would you act? > > Hi there, > I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing about it and more complex it becomes. > > Team competition. > Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. > The bidding goes: > 1D ? P ? 3C ? P > 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass > > *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she is not sure but should be natural and strong. > Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really don?t know what it is, if not natural? > > The full deal > North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 > East : J976/T762/A8/A87 > South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 > West : T53/985/2/KJT432 > > West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with his DA and played a heart back. > Result 3NT+1 > > West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. > South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. > North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) > > How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... > > Kind regards > > Olivier > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151101/89261a4f/attachment-0001.html From petrus at stift-kremsmuenster.at Sun Nov 1 22:10:00 2015 From: petrus at stift-kremsmuenster.at (Petrus Schuster OSB) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 22:10:00 +0100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:33:54 +0100, Olivier La Spada wrote: > Hi there, > I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing > about it and more complex it becomes. >Team competition. > Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. > The bidding goes: > 1D ? P ? 3C ? P > 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass >*After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that > she is not sure but should be natural and strong. > Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I > really don?t know what it is, if not natural? >The full deal > North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 > East : J976/T762/A8/A87 > South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 > West : T53/985/2/KJT432 >West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with > his DA and played a heart back. > Result 3NT+1 >West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. > South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. > North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) >How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... NS seem to agree that there was MI which South should have corrected before the opening lead (Law 20F5b), therefore an adjusted score is to be awarded (Law 75B). As the club lead is very likely with the correct information, I adjust to 3NT-3 for both sides. Regards, Petrus -- Erstellt mit Operas E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151101/7f577729/attachment.html From jfusselman at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 03:38:02 2015 From: jfusselman at gmail.com (Jerry Fusselman) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 20:38:02 -0600 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: > Team competition. > Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. > The bidding goes: > 1D ? P ? 3C ? P > 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass > > *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she > is not sure but should be natural and strong. > Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really > don?t know what it is, if not natural? > > The full deal > North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 > East : J976/T762/A8/A87 > South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 > West : T53/985/2/KJT432 > Why is no one discussing the UI? What does 3S mean in their system? Did UI influence 3NT as a signoff? Jerry Fusselman From svenpran at online.no Mon Nov 2 08:20:37 2015 From: svenpran at online.no (Sven Pran) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:20:37 +0100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: <001401d1153e$fa098aa0$ee1c9fe0$@online.no> > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] P? vegne av > Jerry Fusselman > > Why is no one discussing the UI? What does 3S mean in their system? > Did UI influence 3NT as a signoff? > > Jerry Fusselman [Sven Pran] UI is a minor issue compared to the Law 25 violation in this case. Sven From gordonr60 at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 09:27:42 2015 From: gordonr60 at gmail.com (Gordon Rainsford) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:27:42 +0000 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: The NOS are getting a better result from defending 3NT on a Club lead than they would get from defending diamonds at any level. On 2 Nov 2015, at 02:38, Jerry Fusselman wrote: >> Team competition. >> Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. >> The bidding goes: >> 1D ? P ? 3C ? P >> 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass >> >> *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she >> is not sure but should be natural and strong. >> Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really >> don?t know what it is, if not natural? >> >> The full deal >> North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 >> East : J976/T762/A8/A87 >> South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 >> West : T53/985/2/KJT432 > > Why is no one discussing the UI? What does 3S mean in their system? > Did UI influence 3NT as a signoff? > > Jerry Fusselman > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml From thill75 at wesleyan.edu Mon Nov 2 15:36:57 2015 From: thill75 at wesleyan.edu (Timothy N. Hill) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 09:36:57 -0500 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: At the least I adjust to -3 and give South -- Timothy N. Hill mobile: +1 781-929-7673, home: +1 781-235-2902 416 Linden Street, Wellesley Hills, MA 02481, USA Duplicate Bridge Director American Contract Bridge League: Westwood Bridge Club: 781-329-2476, Newton Bridge Club: > On Nov 1, 2015, at 13:33, Olivier La Spada wrote: > > Hi there, > I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing about it and more complex it becomes. > > Team competition. > Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. > The bidding goes: > 1D ? P ? 3C ? P > 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass > > *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she is not sure but should be natural and strong. > Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really don?t know what it is, if not natural? > > The full deal > North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 > East : J976/T762/A8/A87 > South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 > West : T53/985/2/KJT432 > > West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with his DA and played a heart back. > Result 3NT+1 > > West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. > South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. > North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) > > How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... > > Kind regards > > Olivier > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151102/62cb4061/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151102/62cb4061/attachment.bin From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Mon Nov 2 15:43:36 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:43:36 +0100 Subject: [BLML] your ruling In-Reply-To: <563388E4.4010007@gmx.de> References: <563388E4.4010007@gmx.de> Message-ID: <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> Only a few responses and none of them seem to consider passing. At the table West did pass and the result was not good because EW had a game in clubs. South's bid did not show clubs, probably MI. What do you decide? The problem is the closing pass by West? Is this a so egregious mistake so as to cancel the MI? JE Am 30.10.2015 um 16:12 schrieb Jeff Easterson: > Both sides white. West holds: > > 1072 > K43 > 108 > A10642 > > His LHO opens 1 heart, partner doubles, RHO says 1NT which is alerted as > showing clubs. Wets passed, LHO bid 2 hearts, his partner doubles and > RHO passed. > > What now? What do you call? > > > Ciao, JE > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From thill75 at wesleyan.edu Mon Nov 2 15:56:07 2015 From: thill75 at wesleyan.edu (Timothy N. Hill) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 09:56:07 -0500 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: <6F2C34F5-6153-4FAD-AED8-0970589065F2@wesleyan.edu> (Sorry about the premature send.) At the least I adjust to -3 and give South a procedural penalty for not correcting his partner's missexplanation before the opening lead. North properly told EW about his doubts when he missexplained 3C. If he hadn't expressed doubt, I'd have taken him away from the table and asked why he hadn't raised to 6NT. If necessary, I'd then have taken each of the other three away from the table, one at a time, to try to determine what UI North had when he didn't raise 3NT. If I decided there was UI and that NS had enough experience to know better, I'd adjust to 6NT-6 plus two procedural penalties--for failure to correct the missexplanation and for using UI! Tim On Nov 1, 2015, at 13:33, Olivier La Spada wrote: > Hi there, > I was faced to what could be called a simple case, but the more I thing about it and more complex it becomes. > > Team competition. > Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. > The bidding goes: > 1D ? P ? 3C ? P > 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass > > *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer that she is not sure but should be natural and strong. > Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I really don?t know what it is, if not natural? > > The full deal > North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 > East : J976/T762/A8/A87 > South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 > West : T53/985/2/KJT432 > > West led H9 (playing 2nd/4th) for the K, at trick 2 East is in hand with his DA and played a heart back. > Result 3NT+1 > > West called the TD (me) and complained about the wrong information. > South told us that 3C was showing 5+D in a 10-12H hand. > North now remembered this and apologized to his partner (how cute!) > > How would you treat this? further questions, rulling, ... > > Kind regards > > Olivier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151102/20e51383/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151102/20e51383/attachment-0001.bin From vip at centrum.is Mon Nov 2 16:27:02 2015 From: vip at centrum.is (=?utf-8?Q?Vigf=C3=BAs_P=C3=A1lsson?=) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:27:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [BLML] your ruling In-Reply-To: <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> References: <563388E4.4010007@gmx.de> <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> Message-ID: <207899808.11687663.1446478022270.JavaMail.zimbra@centrum.is> There is no way that west's PASS is a serious mistake, unrelated to the infraction. TD must adjust the score. Vigf?s P?lsson ----- Upprunaleg skilabo? ----- Fr?: "Jeff Easterson" Til: "Bridge Laws Mailing List" Sent: M?nudagur, 2. N?vember, 2015 14:43:36 Efni: Re: [BLML] your ruling Only a few responses and none of them seem to consider passing. At the table West did pass and the result was not good because EW had a game in clubs. South's bid did not show clubs, probably MI. What do you decide? The problem is the closing pass by West? Is this a so egregious mistake so as to cancel the MI? JE Am 30.10.2015 um 16:12 schrieb Jeff Easterson: > Both sides white. West holds: > > 1072 > K43 > 108 > A10642 > > His LHO opens 1 heart, partner doubles, RHO says 1NT which is alerted as > showing clubs. Wets passed, LHO bid 2 hearts, his partner doubles and > RHO passed. > > What now? What do you call? > > > Ciao, JE > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Blml mailing list Blml at rtflb.org http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml From olivier.laspada at bluewin.ch Tue Nov 3 00:36:33 2015 From: olivier.laspada at bluewin.ch (Olivier La Spada) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:36:33 +0100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: There is one very serious violation here of Law 20F5bii (which is a ?must? law - the strongest there is). South should have called the Director after the final pass (before the opening lead) and offered the in his opinion correct explanation. As a consequence of this failure I would adjusted the score on the board to the likely result if East had led a club in trick 3. Without much analysis I believe this means 3NT-3. (It doesn?r really matter whicn of his three clubs East leads, they get all their 6 club tricks anyway If South is an experienced player I would in addition consider a PP in IMPs, otherwise I would just give a warning. IMHO a clear cut case Sven My principal doubts were about the very bad defence of East at trick 3. At this point is there any reason for not switching to a Club? And could it be considered as a serious error? My decision at the table was clear and I adjusted to 3NT ?3. I did not give a PP to NS. NS appealed and...won. Based on the fact that 3NT should always go down regardless of the explanations received. After long thoughts, I am inclined to consider (2/3 of 3NT-3 and 1/3 of 3NT +1) for EW and 3NT-3 to NS fair enough. But of course I can?t do it as a TD, only the AC could. Best regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151102/e76e600c/attachment.html From hermandw at skynet.be Tue Nov 3 08:18:27 2015 From: hermandw at skynet.be (Herman De Wael) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:18:27 +0100 Subject: [BLML] your ruling In-Reply-To: <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> References: <563388E4.4010007@gmx.de> <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> Message-ID: <56385FC3.4090003@skynet.be> Jeff, you made a serious error here: You should have told the case, looking at the West hand, with the CORRECT information. If this is, as you now say, that 1NT shows points but not necessarily clubs, then I cannot imagine that there are NO bids from West. Ergo, the damage has already been done. To ask players what they would do in the second round after they've passed in the first one, is not correct. It's quite logical that you should now pass. Herman. Jeff Easterson schreef: > Only a few responses and none of them seem to consider passing. At the > table West did pass and the result was not good because EW had a game in > clubs. South's bid did not show clubs, probably MI. > What do you decide? The problem is the closing pass by West? Is this a > so egregious mistake so as to cancel the MI? > > JE > > Am 30.10.2015 um 16:12 schrieb Jeff Easterson: >> Both sides white. West holds: >> >> 1072 >> K43 >> 108 >> A10642 >> >> His LHO opens 1 heart, partner doubles, RHO says 1NT which is alerted as >> showing clubs. Wets passed, LHO bid 2 hearts, his partner doubles and >> RHO passed. >> >> What now? What do you call? >> >> >> Ciao, JE >> >> --- >> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> Blml at rtflb.org >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > From agot at ulb.ac.be Tue Nov 3 14:03:02 2015 From: agot at ulb.ac.be (agot) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:03:02 +0100 Subject: [BLML] =?utf-8?q?How_would_you_act=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: <455efeb150e38a9d616091e449a7787b@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Le 02.11.2015 03:38, Jerry Fusselman a ?crit?: >> Team competition. >> Board 37, NS Red, Dealer North. >> The bidding goes: >> 1D ? P ? 3C ? P >> 3S ? P* ? 3NT ? all Pass >> >> *After the 3S bid, East asked about the meaning of 3C. North answer >> that she >> is not sure but should be natural and strong. >> Before the lead, West asked again about the 3C and the answer was ?I >> really >> don?t know what it is, if not natural? >> >> The full deal >> North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 >> East : J976/T762/A8/A87 >> South : Q2/AQ4/T9543/Q95 >> West : T53/985/2/KJT432 >> > > Why is no one discussing the UI? What does 3S mean in their system? > Did UI influence 3NT as a signoff? > If there had been no question and no explanation, the 3NT bid is normal given that South has relatively little in diamonds and much in hearts and clubs. No reason to think that 3S isn't a try for 3NT. So, no problem there. From agot at ulb.ac.be Tue Nov 3 14:08:30 2015 From: agot at ulb.ac.be (agot) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:08:30 +0100 Subject: [BLML] your ruling In-Reply-To: <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> References: <563388E4.4010007@gmx.de> <56377698.8070607@gmx.de> Message-ID: <9c690878c3ba88255eab28a5a2bd0091@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Le 02.11.2015 15:43, Jeff Easterson a ?crit?: > Only a few responses and none of them seem to consider passing. At the > table West did pass and the result was not good because EW had a game > in > clubs. South's bid did not show clubs, probably MI. > What do you decide? The problem is the closing pass by West? Is this > a > so egregious mistake so as to cancel the MI? AG : I think (sorry if I'm wrong) that I mentioned the pass, saying that it was probably wrong but not wild enough to disallow redress. With declarer void in clubs, 6 tricks are not certain, but one might notice that he will have no dummy reentry. So, if partner holds AKxx-Qx-AKJxx-xx (why not?) pass might be right. Best regards Alain From agot at ulb.ac.be Tue Nov 3 14:12:06 2015 From: agot at ulb.ac.be (agot) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:12:06 +0100 Subject: [BLML] =?utf-8?q?How_would_you_act=3F?= In-Reply-To: <6F2C34F5-6153-4FAD-AED8-0970589065F2@wesleyan.edu> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> <6F2C34F5-6153-4FAD-AED8-0970589065F2@wesleyan.edu> Message-ID: <6615e1915ebbd790170a850512a48c24@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Le 02.11.2015 15:56, Timothy N. Hill a ?crit?: > (Sorry about the premature send.) > > At the least I adjust to -3 _and_ give South a procedural penalty for > not correcting his partner's missexplanation before the opening lead. > > North properly told EW about his doubts when he missexplained 3C. If > he hadn't expressed doubt, I'd have taken him away from the table and > asked why he hadn't raised to 6NT. If necessary, I'd then have taken > each of the other three away from the table, one at a time, to try to > determine what UI North had when he didn't raise 3NT. If I decided > there was UI and that NS had enough experience to know better, I'd > adjust to 6NT-6 plus _two_ procedural penalties--for failure to > correct the missexplanation and for using UI! >> >> The full deal >> North : AK83/KJ3/KQJ76/6 I beg your pardon ? North seems a bit unsure about the bid, and you want him to bid 6NT ? BTW, I don't see 6NT as a good contract facing xx-AQx-x-AKJxxxx, which is what South advertised if 3C is strong. From swillner at nhcc.net Tue Nov 3 15:31:15 2015 From: swillner at nhcc.net (Steve Willner) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:31:15 -0500 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> Message-ID: <5638C533.7070509@nhcc.net> On 2015-11-02 6:36 PM, Olivier La Spada wrote: > My principal doubts were about the very bad defence of East at trick > 3. At this point is there any reason for not switching to a Club? And > could it be considered as a serious error? If it's a serious error -- and I don't think it is -- it is related to the infraction. Therefore it's no reason to deny redress. > My decision at the table was clear and I adjusted to 3NT ???3. I did > not give a PP to NS. Fair enough. I hope you told NS what they should have done. > NS appealed and...won. Based on the fact that 3NT should always go > down regardless of the explanations received. This looks like an error in Law, though one that's all too common. The proper legal question is not what should have happened after the MI. Rather it is what _would_ have happened had the NOS received correct information. Can there be any doubt they would have led clubs if they had correct information? > I am inclined to consider (2/3 of 3NT-3 and 1/3 of 3NT +1) for EW and > 3NT-3 to NS fair enough. I don't understand this. If you are giving weighted scores, why not the same for both sides? Again, the goal is to estimate what would have happened with correct information, perhaps with a little "benefit of doubt" to the NOS. That should be the same for both sides. If you want to give a PP in addition, that's a separate consideration. Do you really think that _with correct information_ there's a 1/3 chance East would not have led clubs? If so, NS are entitled to that. I'd put it at maybe 2%, but you could poll some players and get a better estimate. There's probably also a 2% chance NS would have done something silly in the play, so I wouldn't give any weight to 3NT+1. > But of course I can???t do it as a TD, only the AC could. Are there special rules in your jurisdiction? We in the ACBL can't use weighted scores at all, but in most jurisdictions, weighted scores can come from either TDs or ACs. From agot at ulb.ac.be Tue Nov 3 16:57:16 2015 From: agot at ulb.ac.be (agot) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:57:16 +0100 Subject: [BLML] =?utf-8?q?How_would_you_act=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5638C533.7070509@nhcc.net> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> <5638C533.7070509@nhcc.net> Message-ID: <40163517fce1098c5637390e58a8c19d@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Le 03.11.2015 15:31, Steve Willner a ?crit?: > On 2015-11-02 6:36 PM, Olivier La Spada wrote: >> My principal doubts were about the very bad defence of East at trick >> 3. At this point is there any reason for not switching to a Club? And >> could it be considered as a serious error? > > If it's a serious error -- and I don't think it is -- it is related to > the infraction. Therefore it's no reason to deny redress. > >> My decision at the table was clear and I adjusted to 3NT ???3. I did >> not give a PP to NS. > > Fair enough. I hope you told NS what they should have done. > >> NS appealed and...won. Based on the fact that 3NT should always go >> down regardless of the explanations received. > > This looks like an error in Law, though one that's all too common. The > proper legal question is not what should have happened after the MI. > Rather it is what _would_ have happened had the NOS received correct > information. Can there be any doubt they would have led clubs if they > had correct information? There is more in it. The chance that RHO would not have led clubs is about nil. But the chance that LHO would have continued with a heart is about 20% IMO. So, I would make it a 80-20 weighted score. And with the penalty N/S deserved it would look very much like 100-0 even if not split. Best regards Alain From hildalirsch at gmail.com Wed Nov 4 10:32:08 2015 From: hildalirsch at gmail.com (Richard Hills) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:32:08 +1100 Subject: [BLML] How would you act? In-Reply-To: <5638C533.7070509@nhcc.net> References: <857A9208486D4B88B01E55AA21A70FF7@OlivierPC> <5638C533.7070509@nhcc.net> Message-ID: Steve Willner's keystone sentence: "This looks like an error in Law, though one that's all too common." Richard Hills: If I was the Director in charge, and my Appeals Committee perpetrated an error in Law, then I would cancel the AC's ruling. See Law 93B3 which makes it clear that only the Director is entitled to perpetrate an error in Law. :-) :-) Of course, after the cancellation I would reconvene the Appeals Committee and invite them to supersede their illegal ruling with a legal one. Best wishes, Richard Hills On Wednesday, November 4, 2015, Steve Willner wrote: > On 2015-11-02 6:36 PM, Olivier La Spada wrote: > > My principal doubts were about the very bad defence of East at trick > > 3. At this point is there any reason for not switching to a Club? And > > could it be considered as a serious error? > > If it's a serious error -- and I don't think it is -- it is related to > the infraction. Therefore it's no reason to deny redress. > > > My decision at the table was clear and I adjusted to 3NT ???3. I did > > not give a PP to NS. > > Fair enough. I hope you told NS what they should have done. > > > NS appealed and...won. Based on the fact that 3NT should always go > > down regardless of the explanations received. > > This looks like an error in Law, though one that's all too common. The > proper legal question is not what should have happened after the MI. > Rather it is what _would_ have happened had the NOS received correct > information. Can there be any doubt they would have led clubs if they > had correct information? > > > I am inclined to consider (2/3 of 3NT-3 and 1/3 of 3NT +1) for EW and > > 3NT-3 to NS fair enough. > > I don't understand this. If you are giving weighted scores, why not the > same for both sides? Again, the goal is to estimate what would have > happened with correct information, perhaps with a little "benefit of > doubt" to the NOS. That should be the same for both sides. If you want > to give a PP in addition, that's a separate consideration. > > Do you really think that _with correct information_ there's a 1/3 chance > East would not have led clubs? If so, NS are entitled to that. I'd put > it at maybe 2%, but you could poll some players and get a better > estimate. There's probably also a 2% chance NS would have done > something silly in the play, so I wouldn't give any weight to 3NT+1. > > > But of course I can???t do it as a TD, only the AC could. > > Are there special rules in your jurisdiction? We in the ACBL can't use > weighted scores at all, but in most jurisdictions, weighted scores can > come from either TDs or ACs. > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151104/b33eb154/attachment-0001.html From diggadog at iinet.net.au Mon Nov 9 12:08:13 2015 From: diggadog at iinet.net.au (diggadog at iinet.net.au) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 03:08:13 -0800 Subject: [BLML] Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d3328f97$e28ac094$5a6fd73f$@iinet.net.au> Hey! New message, please read diggadog at iinet.net.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151109/45b79887/attachment.html From diggadog at iinet.net.au Mon Nov 9 12:08:21 2015 From: diggadog at iinet.net.au (diggadog at iinet.net.au) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 03:08:21 -0800 Subject: [BLML] Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000498e4754$0a6b2e24$96453a7d$@iinet.net.au> Hey! New message, please read diggadog at iinet.net.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151109/b79d8b9e/attachment.html From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Thu Nov 19 16:15:55 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:15:55 +0100 Subject: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list Message-ID: <564DE7AB.90908@gmx.de> I seem to have at least 4 addresses for blml and am not sure which are valid so am using all of them. I recently received an email saying that I had been unsubscribed from the list. Why? I did not resign or indicate in any way that I wanted to "unsubscribe". Please restore to the list and continue sending the postings. For the last few days I have not received any. And please inform me why I have been "unsubscribed" against my will. I'd appreciate a prompt response. I wrote to you a few days ago about this and have had no response. Yours faithfully, Jeff Easterson PS: Could there be a problem with my E-Mail address? I have two; please note both of them for the list. JffEstrsn at aol.com Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From bpark56 at comcast.net Thu Nov 19 17:04:08 2015 From: bpark56 at comcast.net (Robert Park) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:04:08 -0500 Subject: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <564DE7AB.90908@gmx.de> References: <564DE7AB.90908@gmx.de> Message-ID: <26275B1E-6178-4857-9996-26561F0F6C1D@comcast.net> Jeff? We have found that our internet service provider (comcast.net ) will bounce messages sent to us if it judges the sender to be using or routing through a server it judges untrustworthy. Most of these servers seem to be in Europe. BLML seems at times to be using one of these untrustworthy servers. As a result, its messages to me often bounce, and BLML has unsubscribed me a dozen times or so. I don?t know what we can do about it. I would hope BLML would, and that they would care enough to do so. ?Bob Park > On Nov 19, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Jeff Easterson wrote: > > I seem to have at least 4 addresses for blml and am not sure which are > valid so am using all of them. > I recently received an email saying that I had been unsubscribed from > the list. Why? I did not resign or indicate in any way that I wanted > to "unsubscribe". Please restore to the list and continue sending the > postings. For the last few days I have not received any. And please > inform me why I have been "unsubscribed" against my will. > I'd appreciate a prompt response. I wrote to you a few days ago about > this and have had no response. > > Yours faithfully, Jeff Easterson > > PS: Could there be a problem with my E-Mail address? I have two; > please note both of them for the list. > > JffEstrsn at aol.com > > Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151119/ed8b0266/attachment.html From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Fri Nov 20 08:29:45 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:29:45 +0100 Subject: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <26275B1E-6178-4857-9996-26561F0F6C1D@comcast.net> References: <564DE7AB.90908@gmx.de> <26275B1E-6178-4857-9996-26561F0F6C1D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <564ECBE9.3080704@gmx.de> Ciao Robert, Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. Ciao, JE Am 19.11.2015 um 17:04 schrieb Robert Park: > Jeff? > > We have found that our internet service provider (comcast.net > ) will bounce messages sent to us if it judges the > sender to be using or routing through a server it judges > untrustworthy. Most of these servers seem to be in Europe. BLML seems > at times to be using one of these untrustworthy servers. As a result, > its messages to me often bounce, and BLML has unsubscribed me a dozen > times or so. > > I don?t know what we can do about it. I would hope BLML would, and > that they would care enough to do so. > > ?Bob Park > > >> On Nov 19, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Jeff Easterson > > wrote: >> >> I seem to have at least 4 addresses for blml and am not sure which are >> valid so am using all of them. >> I recently received an email saying that I had been unsubscribed from >> the list. Why? I did not resign or indicate in any way that I wanted >> to "unsubscribe". Please restore to the list and continue sending the >> postings. For the last few days I have not received any. And please >> inform me why I have been "unsubscribed" against my will. >> I'd appreciate a prompt response. I wrote to you a few days ago about >> this and have had no response. >> >> Yours faithfully, Jeff Easterson >> >> PS: Could there be a problem with my E-Mail address? I have two; >> please note both of them for the list. >> >> JffEstrsn at aol.com >> >> Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de >> >> --- >> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> Blml at rtflb.org >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From henk.uijterwaal at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 08:47:18 2015 From: henk.uijterwaal at gmail.com (Henk Uijterwaal) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:47:18 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Fwd: Re: "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> References: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> Message-ID: <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:46:09 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal To: blml at rtflb.org Hi Jeff, others, > Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. > I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. I've explained this a couple of times to you, and I'm going to repeat it once more: the problem is on your side not on the BLML side. What happens is that the AOL mail server cannot deliver a message to you and is kind enough to inform the BLML server. This is a bounce. The BLML server counts the number of bounces, if it passes a threshold, it assumes that the address is no longer valid and removes the receipient from the list. It does inform the user, so he can take action. Bounces can be caused for various reasons. The most common are an overfull mailbox (and no room for a new message), users changing email addresses without informing the list or small technical hickups. An occasional bounce is not a problem, only when there are freequent bounces, the software takes action. AOL does seem to have lots of small hickups, so complain about it at AOL. As BLML is not an AOL customer, there is nothing BLML can do. Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Read my blog at http://www.uijterwaal.nl/henks_hands.html From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Fri Nov 20 09:01:01 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:01:01 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Fwd: Re: "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> References: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <564ED33D.1090000@gmx.de> Ciao Henk, Okay, thanks for the info and let me apologise for not remembering your previous info. Incidentally it seems that I am not the only blml member with this problem (see E-Mail from Robert Park.) What an I do to avoid this in the future? I'll try to send messages to you in the future through gmx since the problem seems to be with aol. Perhaps you could send postings to me through gmx or whatever other solution there might be.? I haven't received anything for about 3 or 4 days now. You write that the user is informed so that he can take action. I have absolutely no knowledge of computers, am a born anti-talent. What action can I take when this happens? I can complain to aol I suppose but doubt that this will have much effect. Can we simply change my blml connection to gmx? Or to whatever system would seem to be best. Thanks for your patience and help. If you ever get to any place we live (mostly Perpignan and Berlin) when we are there we'll invite you to a meal as thanks. Ciao, JE (Jeff Easterson) Am 20.11.2015 um 08:47 schrieb Henk Uijterwaal: > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:46:09 +0100 > From: Henk Uijterwaal > To: blml at rtflb.org > > Hi Jeff, others, > >> Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. >> I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. > I've explained this a couple of times to you, and I'm going to repeat it > once more: the problem is on your side not on the BLML side. > > What happens is that the AOL mail server cannot deliver a message to you > and is kind enough to inform the BLML server. This is a bounce. The > BLML server counts the number of bounces, if it passes a threshold, it > assumes that the address is no longer valid and removes the receipient > from the list. It does inform the user, so he can take action. > > Bounces can be caused for various reasons. The most common are an overfull > mailbox (and no room for a new message), users changing email addresses > without informing the list or small technical hickups. An occasional > bounce is not a problem, only when there are freequent bounces, the software > takes action. > > AOL does seem to have lots of small hickups, so complain about it at AOL. > As BLML is not an AOL customer, there is nothing BLML can do. > > Henk > --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From bmeadows666 at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 10:21:26 2015 From: bmeadows666 at gmail.com (brian) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 04:21:26 -0500 Subject: [BLML] Fwd: Re: "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <564ED33D.1090000@gmx.de> References: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> <564ED33D.1090000@gmx.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:01:01 +0100, you wrote: In the hope of avoiding an extended discussion... Jeff, Bob, and anyone else with a shonky mail host - as Henk rightly says, there's nothing he can do, wearing his BLML hat, to address the shortcomings of your ISP. If you don't have access to an ISP that offers a RELIABLE e-mail service, then the only way out is for you to look for a mail service which IS reliable. Personally, I use Pair Networks, have done for almost 18 years now. They are ULTRA-reliable, and have a strict policy of not bouncing ANYTHING unless you tell them to - everything is configurable, although if you're as non-techie as Jeff seems to be, you may need to have Pair's (excellent) support talk you through it. Voice support might be a bit expensive from France/Germany but they do e-mail too. The catch, of course, is that it costs money. I think their cheapest account is currently US $10/month (I'm not sure, I'm grandfathered in at a cheaper rate). That gets you all your e-mail, a web host and FTP facilities, plus a few other things a non-techie is unlikely to use. http://www.pair.com If the cost is a problem, then try a free service such as GMail. GMail accounts seem reasonably reliable (I use one for BLML). Anything has to be better than sticking with an ISP known to be unreliable, and you have the nice side-benefit that, should you move, your e-mail address is ISP-independent. Usual disclaimers, no connection with Pair Networks other than as a (very) happy customer, etc, etc. Brian. >Ciao Henk, > >Okay, thanks for the info and let me apologise for not remembering your >previous info. Incidentally it seems that I am not the only blml member >with this problem (see E-Mail from Robert Park.) What an I do to avoid >this in the future? I'll try to send messages to you in the future >through gmx since the problem seems to be with aol. Perhaps you could >send postings to me through gmx or whatever other solution there might >be.? I haven't received anything for about 3 or 4 days now. >You write that the user is informed so that he can take action. I have >absolutely no knowledge of computers, am a born anti-talent. What action >can I take when this happens? I can complain to aol I suppose but doubt >that this will have much effect. Can we simply change my blml >connection to gmx? Or to whatever system would seem to be best. > >Thanks for your patience and help. If you ever get to any place we live >(mostly Perpignan and Berlin) when we are there we'll invite you to a >meal as thanks. > >Ciao, JE (Jeff Easterson) > >Am 20.11.2015 um 08:47 schrieb Henk Uijterwaal: >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list >> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:46:09 +0100 >> From: Henk Uijterwaal >> To: blml at rtflb.org >> >> Hi Jeff, others, >> >>> Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. >>> I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. >> I've explained this a couple of times to you, and I'm going to repeat it >> once more: the problem is on your side not on the BLML side. >> >> What happens is that the AOL mail server cannot deliver a message to you >> and is kind enough to inform the BLML server. This is a bounce. The >> BLML server counts the number of bounces, if it passes a threshold, it >> assumes that the address is no longer valid and removes the receipient >> from the list. It does inform the user, so he can take action. >> >> Bounces can be caused for various reasons. The most common are an overfull >> mailbox (and no room for a new message), users changing email addresses >> without informing the list or small technical hickups. An occasional >> bounce is not a problem, only when there are freequent bounces, the software >> takes action. >> >> AOL does seem to have lots of small hickups, so complain about it at AOL. >> As BLML is not an AOL customer, there is nothing BLML can do. >> >> Henk >> > > >--- >Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >_______________________________________________ >Blml mailing list >Blml at rtflb.org >http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Fri Nov 20 16:17:07 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:17:07 +0100 Subject: [BLML] Fwd: Re: "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <20151120092145.5A273B6F0422@relay1.webreus.nl> References: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> <564ED33D.1090000@gmx.de> <20151120092145.5A273B6F0422@relay1.webreus.nl> Message-ID: <564F3973.5060604@gmx.de> Thanks. I am now using gmx and hope they will be better. But I'll file your E-Mail for the future in case problems once again surface. Ciao, JE Am 20.11.2015 um 10:21 schrieb brian: > On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:01:01 +0100, you wrote: > > In the hope of avoiding an extended discussion... > > Jeff, Bob, and anyone else with a shonky mail host - as Henk rightly > says, there's nothing he can do, wearing his BLML hat, to address the > shortcomings of your ISP. If you don't have access to an ISP that > offers a RELIABLE e-mail service, then the only way out is for you to > look for a mail service which IS reliable. > > Personally, I use Pair Networks, have done for almost 18 years now. > They are ULTRA-reliable, and have a strict policy of not bouncing > ANYTHING unless you tell them to - everything is configurable, > although if you're as non-techie as Jeff seems to be, you may need to > have Pair's (excellent) support talk you through it. Voice support > might be a bit expensive from France/Germany but they do e-mail too. > > The catch, of course, is that it costs money. I think their cheapest > account is currently US $10/month (I'm not sure, I'm grandfathered in > at a cheaper rate). That gets you all your e-mail, a web host and FTP > facilities, plus a few other things a non-techie is unlikely to use. > http://www.pair.com > > If the cost is a problem, then try a free service such as GMail. GMail > accounts seem reasonably reliable (I use one for BLML). Anything has > to be better than sticking with an ISP known to be unreliable, and you > have the nice side-benefit that, should you move, your e-mail address > is ISP-independent. > > Usual disclaimers, no connection with Pair Networks other than as a > (very) happy customer, etc, etc. > > Brian. > >> Ciao Henk, >> >> Okay, thanks for the info and let me apologise for not remembering your >> previous info. Incidentally it seems that I am not the only blml member >> with this problem (see E-Mail from Robert Park.) What an I do to avoid >> this in the future? I'll try to send messages to you in the future >> through gmx since the problem seems to be with aol. Perhaps you could >> send postings to me through gmx or whatever other solution there might >> be.? I haven't received anything for about 3 or 4 days now. >> You write that the user is informed so that he can take action. I have >> absolutely no knowledge of computers, am a born anti-talent. What action >> can I take when this happens? I can complain to aol I suppose but doubt >> that this will have much effect. Can we simply change my blml >> connection to gmx? Or to whatever system would seem to be best. >> >> Thanks for your patience and help. If you ever get to any place we live >> (mostly Perpignan and Berlin) when we are there we'll invite you to a >> meal as thanks. >> >> Ciao, JE (Jeff Easterson) >> >> Am 20.11.2015 um 08:47 schrieb Henk Uijterwaal: >>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list >>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:46:09 +0100 >>> From: Henk Uijterwaal >>> To: blml at rtflb.org >>> >>> Hi Jeff, others, >>> >>>> Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. >>>> I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. >>> I've explained this a couple of times to you, and I'm going to repeat it >>> once more: the problem is on your side not on the BLML side. >>> >>> What happens is that the AOL mail server cannot deliver a message to you >>> and is kind enough to inform the BLML server. This is a bounce. The >>> BLML server counts the number of bounces, if it passes a threshold, it >>> assumes that the address is no longer valid and removes the receipient >>> from the list. It does inform the user, so he can take action. >>> >>> Bounces can be caused for various reasons. The most common are an overfull >>> mailbox (and no room for a new message), users changing email addresses >>> without informing the list or small technical hickups. An occasional >>> bounce is not a problem, only when there are freequent bounces, the software >>> takes action. >>> >>> AOL does seem to have lots of small hickups, so complain about it at AOL. >>> As BLML is not an AOL customer, there is nothing BLML can do. >>> >>> Henk >>> >> >> --- >> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blml mailing list >> Blml at rtflb.org >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From hildalirsch at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 23:23:27 2015 From: hildalirsch at gmail.com (Richard Hills) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 09:23:27 +1100 Subject: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list In-Reply-To: <564F3973.5060604@gmx.de> References: <564ECFC1.30005@uijterwaal.nl> <564ED006.9090208@gmail.com> <564ED33D.1090000@gmx.de> <20151120092145.5A273B6F0422@relay1.webreus.nl> <564F3973.5060604@gmx.de> Message-ID: My retirement from the Australian public service necessarily forced me to drop my immi.gov.au email address. I now use the free gmail.com for all my emails, and have had zero problems. Best wishes, Richard Hills On Saturday, November 21, 2015, Jeff Easterson wrote: > Thanks. I am now using gmx and hope they will be better. But I'll file > your E-Mail for the future in case problems once again surface. > > Ciao, JE > > Am 20.11.2015 um 10:21 schrieb brian: > > On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:01:01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > In the hope of avoiding an extended discussion... > > > > Jeff, Bob, and anyone else with a shonky mail host - as Henk rightly > > says, there's nothing he can do, wearing his BLML hat, to address the > > shortcomings of your ISP. If you don't have access to an ISP that > > offers a RELIABLE e-mail service, then the only way out is for you to > > look for a mail service which IS reliable. > > > > Personally, I use Pair Networks, have done for almost 18 years now. > > They are ULTRA-reliable, and have a strict policy of not bouncing > > ANYTHING unless you tell them to - everything is configurable, > > although if you're as non-techie as Jeff seems to be, you may need to > > have Pair's (excellent) support talk you through it. Voice support > > might be a bit expensive from France/Germany but they do e-mail too. > > > > The catch, of course, is that it costs money. I think their cheapest > > account is currently US $10/month (I'm not sure, I'm grandfathered in > > at a cheaper rate). That gets you all your e-mail, a web host and FTP > > facilities, plus a few other things a non-techie is unlikely to use. > > http://www.pair.com > > > > If the cost is a problem, then try a free service such as GMail. GMail > > accounts seem reasonably reliable (I use one for BLML). Anything has > > to be better than sticking with an ISP known to be unreliable, and you > > have the nice side-benefit that, should you move, your e-mail address > > is ISP-independent. > > > > Usual disclaimers, no connection with Pair Networks other than as a > > (very) happy customer, etc, etc. > > > > Brian. > > > >> Ciao Henk, > >> > >> Okay, thanks for the info and let me apologise for not remembering your > >> previous info. Incidentally it seems that I am not the only blml member > >> with this problem (see E-Mail from Robert Park.) What an I do to avoid > >> this in the future? I'll try to send messages to you in the future > >> through gmx since the problem seems to be with aol. Perhaps you could > >> send postings to me through gmx or whatever other solution there might > >> be.? I haven't received anything for about 3 or 4 days now. > >> You write that the user is informed so that he can take action. I have > >> absolutely no knowledge of computers, am a born anti-talent. What action > >> can I take when this happens? I can complain to aol I suppose but doubt > >> that this will have much effect. Can we simply change my blml > >> connection to gmx? Or to whatever system would seem to be best. > >> > >> Thanks for your patience and help. If you ever get to any place we live > >> (mostly Perpignan and Berlin) when we are there we'll invite you to a > >> meal as thanks. > >> > >> Ciao, JE (Jeff Easterson) > >> > >> Am 20.11.2015 um 08:47 schrieb Henk Uijterwaal: > >>> > >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > >>> Subject: Re: [BLML] "unsubscribed" (dropped) from blml miling list > >>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:46:09 +0100 > >>> From: Henk Uijterwaal > > >>> To: blml at rtflb.org > >>> > >>> Hi Jeff, others, > >>> > >>>> Thanks for the info. Apparently there is little or nothing we can do. > >>>> I agree with you, blml ought to do something about this. > >>> I've explained this a couple of times to you, and I'm going to repeat > it > >>> once more: the problem is on your side not on the BLML side. > >>> > >>> What happens is that the AOL mail server cannot deliver a message to > you > >>> and is kind enough to inform the BLML server. This is a bounce. The > >>> BLML server counts the number of bounces, if it passes a threshold, it > >>> assumes that the address is no longer valid and removes the receipient > >>> from the list. It does inform the user, so he can take action. > >>> > >>> Bounces can be caused for various reasons. The most common are an > overfull > >>> mailbox (and no room for a new message), users changing email addresses > >>> without informing the list or small technical hickups. An occasional > >>> bounce is not a problem, only when there are freequent bounces, the > software > >>> takes action. > >>> > >>> AOL does seem to have lots of small hickups, so complain about it at > AOL. > >>> As BLML is not an AOL customer, there is nothing BLML can do. > >>> > >>> Henk > >>> > >> > >> --- > >> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Blml mailing list > >> Blml at rtflb.org > >> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > _______________________________________________ > > Blml mailing list > > Blml at rtflb.org > > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > > > > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.rtflb.org/pipermail/blml/attachments/20151120/52dc5bb4/attachment.html From Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de Fri Nov 27 14:59:18 2015 From: Jeff.Easterson at gmx.de (Jeff Easterson) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:59:18 +0100 Subject: [BLML] postings? Message-ID: <565861B6.6090902@gmx.de> Anyone out there receive anything from blml in the past 7-10 days? I haven't. Ciao, JE --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From svenpran at online.no Fri Nov 27 15:20:09 2015 From: svenpran at online.no (Sven Pran) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:20:09 +0100 Subject: [BLML] postings? In-Reply-To: <565861B6.6090902@gmx.de> References: <565861B6.6090902@gmx.de> Message-ID: <000001d1291e$ba09b0d0$2e1d1270$@online.no> No, last previous was the post from Richard Hills one week ago. (I also checked blml archives) > -----Opprinnelig melding----- > Fra: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] P? vegne av > Jeff Easterson > Sendt: 27. november 2015 14:59 > Til: Bridge Laws Mailing List > Emne: [BLML] postings? > > Anyone out there receive anything from blml in the past 7-10 days? I > haven't. > > Ciao, JE > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml From ardelm at optusnet.com.au Fri Nov 27 23:31:51 2015 From: ardelm at optusnet.com.au (Tony Musgrove) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:31:51 +1100 Subject: [BLML] postings? In-Reply-To: <565861B6.6090902@gmx.de> References: <565861B6.6090902@gmx.de> Message-ID: <00b001d12963$69e12940$3da37bc0$@optusnet.com.au> I keep getting posts from Jeff Easton complaing about not getting posts. There has not been anything interesting for some weeks Cheers, Tony (Sydney) > -----Original Message----- > From: blml-bounces at rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces at rtflb.org] On Behalf > Of Jeff Easterson > Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2015 12:59 AM > To: Bridge Laws Mailing List > Subject: [BLML] postings? > > Anyone out there receive anything from blml in the past 7-10 days? I > haven't. > > Ciao, JE > > --- > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Blml mailing list > Blml at rtflb.org > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml